tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post2730138038437886503..comments2022-01-22T01:15:27.341-07:00Comments on Against the Wall: I love gay people,...but....Clive Durhamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13429000026909551119noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-21619422697674709482012-12-13T15:46:23.901-07:002012-12-13T15:46:23.901-07:00Thank you TJ and Taryn. The point of this series i...Thank you TJ and Taryn. The point of this series is to help those who are Mormon and really want to build bridges to the gay community understand that communication for communication's sake is worse than meaningless. If Mormons want to build bridges, they have to be willing to actually open their hearts, reach out, and show a little understanding on OUR terms, not on theirs.That's what reaching out is all about...moving from a safe space to the place where you feel a little discomfort.Clive Durhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13429000026909551119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-1992412523273502672012-12-11T23:16:24.849-07:002012-12-11T23:16:24.849-07:00That's a valid question, but I don't think...That's a valid question, but I don't think you'd like the answer. Not any more than you'd like to be patronized, treated as broken your whole life, and kept from ever having children or a romantic relationship, because of something that even the people doing so acknowledge is outside your control.<br /><br />If that's the love that you have to offer, you can keep it. I don't want any.Jewelfoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05299585026397288030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-42206159260384450542012-12-03T17:00:22.936-07:002012-12-03T17:00:22.936-07:00I was an active "card" carrying Mormon f...I was an active "card" carrying Mormon for the first 51 years of my life (before I "came out") and I never worshipped Joseph Smith, nor as a missionary did I encourage others to do so. Rather I revered him as a prophet of God, respected him for what he tried to accomplish against all odds and looked up to him as great leader. Did he have his faults and make mistakes, sure...but don't we all? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-88009800731246964932012-12-03T11:35:25.600-07:002012-12-03T11:35:25.600-07:00I think that's the foundation for true love......I think that's the foundation for true love...the unconditional element. We're all worthy of this love and deserve it. I don't need or even want someone to love me in spite of who I am. I want to surround myself with people who love me for who I am.TJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-27734184260084597932012-12-03T10:56:47.064-07:002012-12-03T10:56:47.064-07:00Matt,
I do understand where you're coming from...Matt,<br />I do understand where you're coming from in this post...BUT...if someone's brother is an ass that's a personality trait. I doubt that brother has prayed to Heavenly Father to change his "assness" to the extent of sobbing and contemplating suicide (it's possible, but doubtful). The common person does view the "but" as a negation marker...including those that use the "I love gay people but..." line. It's so patronizing to hear those words from someone that claims he/she "loves" or "likes" you. I'm thankful for those who truly understand the Gospel and understand that love should be unconditional...as taught in the scriptures. TJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-46759272011266369922012-12-02T10:26:26.546-07:002012-12-02T10:26:26.546-07:00Good post. Sometimes the word 'but' is im...Good post. Sometimes the word 'but' is implied, like 'love the sinner, hate the sin.' In this case, you wonder how much a person loves the sinner if all they can see is the sin.<br /><br />Here are a couple of examples that maybe true blue Mormons can better relate to.<br /><br />"I sustain the brethren, but I think they are behind the times on ..."<br /><br />"I don't think that the Mormon church is a cult, but why do they worship Joseph Smith?"<br /><br />Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02362091622374247620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-9884420861597016212012-12-02T08:01:33.869-07:002012-12-02T08:01:33.869-07:00To me, the "I love you, but..." phrase p...To me, the "I love you, but..." phrase puts a condition on that love. Love should be unconditional, right? One might as well say, "I love you only if you live according to my moral standards."Derekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240723221102156002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-63105451569321989522012-12-02T02:04:01.308-07:002012-12-02T02:04:01.308-07:00Look . . . nothing personal, but this post has hap...Look . . . nothing personal, but this post has happened four or five times in the gay blogs over the past couple of years, and every time, I choke on the new iteration. Anyone who has studied literature or rhetoric will tell you that no matter what you learned in grade school, "but" is not a negation marker in phrases like this, it's a contrast marker.<br /><br />For example: "I love my brother, but sometimes he's an ass." Both statements are true. His occasional assiness doesn't negate my love for him. Because "love" and "being an ass" are contrasting concepts, "but" is the appropriate conjunction.<br /><br />Putting myself in the straight religious person's shoes, if you told me that Christ said "love one another," not "love one another, but . . ." I would remind you that while he didn't use the conjunction "but," he did use the contrasty ideas--"love one another," yet "stand ye in holy places," "“What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul," "Surely the Lord will do nothing save he reveal his secrets unto his servants the prophets." You don't think those statements are contrasty? Your straight friend does.<br /><br />Challenging a person's assertion that they love their lesbian friends does absolutely no good, because "loving" them means something different to them than it does to you. Perhaps you think it's impossible to both love a brother and say that they are sometimes an ass. I don't. Good luck convincing me otherwise.<br /><br />Instead, how about asking your interlocutor how they show their love?Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03156523925956642311noreply@blogger.com