tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post4066652753044218250..comments2022-01-22T01:15:27.341-07:00Comments on Against the Wall: Believe it or not , MOMs typically fail...Clive Durhamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13429000026909551119noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-32613782238616294962011-03-04T12:07:12.501-07:002011-03-04T12:07:12.501-07:00I appreciate your perspective on this. I am in a o...I appreciate your perspective on this. I am in a open & honest MOM, now in our 3rd year. Things are better than they have ever been between my wife and I. And I'm not naive enough to believe that tomorrow I won't wake up hating the life I've chosen. But for now, I'm doing what I can to build a strong a marriage for my wife and myself.<br /><br />I've often asked myself if I could possibly recommend others to enter into a MOM. My response to that is: if the gay man is completely honest with the straight woman, they both demonstrate a level of growing attraction and physical intimacy, they both understand that the SSA will never go away and that marriage won't "fix" anything, and manage to build a spiritual relationship in Christ... then, yeah, I could see a MOM working in such a situation.<br /><br />Unfortunately, most MOMs in the 70s, 80s, and 90s were NOT started with the principles listed above. Most gay men deceived their straight wives, going off of what had been recommended to them by Church Leaders. They believed that marriage would cure them. The years of denial, and repression eventually erupt.<br /><br />Again, I appreciate and respect your perspective, but I don't think it's right or fair to refer to those who are "faithful," as being "naive."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-32260921315742715802011-03-02T23:12:21.263-07:002011-03-02T23:12:21.263-07:00Alex, thank you for your insightful comments. They...Alex, thank you for your insightful comments. They are heart felt and deeply moving. <br /><br />I believe with the scriptures that men and women are that they might have joy. You and your wife deserve joy, not just in the eternities, but in this life as well. I pray you both will somehow come to the point where you might find it.Clive Durhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13429000026909551119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-60197151887700364752011-03-02T07:57:40.925-07:002011-03-02T07:57:40.925-07:00I would however like to qualify my comment a bit. ...I would however like to qualify my comment a bit. I'm speaking from a lot of personal grief and frustration. But from a more rational point of view, I've recently (as in since I posted this) been reading When Husbands Come Out of the Closet, recommended by Mister Curie. http://curie-us.blogspot.com/ Basically it talks about attitudes toward gay/straight marriage and says that people who divide people into being exclusively homosexual or exclusively heterosexual rather than on a continuum are "likely to take the stance that homosexuality, no matter what degree, is simply not compatible with heterosexual marriage" (Gochros 49). It's important to note this is both a religious community Group A (i.e. the lds church's stance) as well as Group B that only sees gay man as getting married to conform and fails to take account of the other reasons.<br />The reality is more complicated. There are plenty of people with "same sex attraction" that can and do make their marriage work. <br /> It says, " A Group C perspective, however, is more apt to consider such marriages as potentially viable, depending on the reason for the marriage and the ability to lead an unconventional lifestyle. Group C writers find no evidence that when freed from stigmatization, such marriages are more 'neurotic' than any others or that the essential ingredients for a satisfying relationship are different from those of a heterosexual relationship" (50).<br /> There's a lot of sense in saying, "Some people can make it work, depending on their circumstances. Some people can't."Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13589508168777037793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-66965470271895080302011-03-02T05:32:11.825-07:002011-03-02T05:32:11.825-07:00You know even in this "enlighetened" wor...You know even in this "enlighetened" world things are not so much better. When you think "my options are either to live a lone celibate life or get married to a woman and have a family"...which do you think most of us would like to choose?<br /> Having been brainwashed by Evergreen, I decided I'd give marriage a try.<br /> Mixed Orientation Marriage is very very hard. Recently, I'm really feeling the brunt of that. To have my wife worry she's 2nd best, to have to admit that we don't feel the same things for each other. There's a lot I could say about this, but let me boil it down to a simple phrase:<br /> Your wife deserves to be loved and respected, and a husband who is fully committed to her. When you don't feel (naturally) that attraction to your wife, it's a lot harder to do that (Maybe some of you have a better answer but for me, I'm not doing a very good job at it).<br />Let me state my utter frustration (personally) with this counsel.<br />I've been married 3 years now. 2 months now I've accepted I'm gay.<br /> I look back, and it's this very counsel that lead me to get married.<br />1) Deal with these feeling. <br /> Um, tell me at what point can a person know for sure that they have "overcome" their same sex attraction? For me, that meant shoving it aside, ignoring it. I thought "Oh, I've overcome this now)the quote says "Deal with" but if that's in the way that Evergreen etc means, I'm gonna tell you it doesn't work in the long term.<br />2) Attraction to a daughter of God. <br /> This one is more complicated. I mean I definitely feel something for my wife. But strong sexual and romantic attraction? I feel that for men.<br /> By the very counsel, these feelings aren't in the background, my "Attraction" to a daughter of God is weak at best. But having gone through the BYU mold, and gone through some evergreen where people "testified" that I could get married, there came a point when I thought I'd "dealt" with this, I went ahead and got married.<br /> And now things are frustrating. I mean, we're best friends. I'll be the first to tell you I love my wife, we have some really positive things in our relationship. Just because we don't hate each other though doesn't mean it was or is the right thing. Whenever we come up againt that obstacle, that lack of attraction on my part, it's hard.So much stress. So much hell to go through, for both of us. It's really not something I'd want anyone else to have to feel.<br /> I don't want to overgeneralize. Everyone's sort of at a different place in their MOM, and a bit different circumstances. I can only tell you where my marriage is at, and it isn't pretty.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13589508168777037793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-11737552392910539302011-03-01T07:10:18.848-07:002011-03-01T07:10:18.848-07:00I am new to the church and I have never heard of M...I am new to the church and I have never heard of MOMs before. Could someone please tell me what it is ?<br /><br />So Before I was a member of the church , I did alot of "things" and I have met alot of Gay men that are married and um... it is not good. They do not seem to care how bad they could hurt their families. <br />I really feel that it is a bad idea for gay guys to marry Girls because from what I have heard and seen most of the time the gay guy "hooks" up with another Guy. I do know one LDS guy that is making it work and I hope he does but that is just not the normBrandonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05992722925016705923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-86506052459773294282011-02-28T23:18:43.118-07:002011-02-28T23:18:43.118-07:00Brethren, thank you for your insightful and sensit...Brethren, thank you for your insightful and sensitive comments. When we all married, the world was a different place and we didn't have the knowledge or the choices most young gay men have today. I admire all of you for the choices you've made. <br /><br />As my former wife told our bishop when he tried to comfort her by saying that he understood trials because he had lost a child, "I'd trade places with you in a heartbeat. You have no idea what real trial is unless you have walked in the shoes of my husband or me." <br /><br />Despite our mutual love and fidelity, our compatibility, our focus on the Gospel and on service, and our wonderful children, everyday required superhuman effort to keep our relationship and our family intact. Ultimately, it became too much of a burden to continue. <br /><br />For those of you who are able to muster on, God bless you.Clive Durhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13429000026909551119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-68293160168488034502011-02-28T22:33:23.159-07:002011-02-28T22:33:23.159-07:00Well, this rant surely deserves a comment from the...Well, this rant surely deserves a comment from the likes of me...yesterday my wife and I reached the 30 year mark on our 'Mixed Orientation Marriage.' Today we are happy, but celebrating with our eyes wide open, and much more aware of we have and don't have.<br /><br />We certainly began our lives' journey full of the faith and optimism you described. Although I told my wife to be that I had at times "same-sex attractions," it barely registered on our alarm sensors, because we both bought into the church's rhetoric that with faith, repentance and regular hetero sex, that such feelings would go away. After all, I surely wasn't gay and I had no intention to "choose" that perverted 'alternative lifestyle' which those kind of people lived. <br /><br />There is a family in our ward that has a gay son who is currently serving a mission. We've talked with them about our MOM. Last week the mother told us that we are her inspiration. This frightens me, because I don't want her to carry the hope that because we're still together and faithful, that her son can/should get married to a woman.<br /><br />I am thankful for my wife and our family which we've built together. But oh, there have been times of great sorrow and resentment, on both sides. This weekend we talked about if we were to do it all again, would we? We both have said, probably not. Maybe there were other paths we should have taken, but there wasn't the understanding or the options available 30 years ago that young adults have today.<br /><br />We choose to remain together, to care for and love one another. I want to honor her and my covenants. But this is the result of persistence and years of mutual family investment, and not from a natural bond. We have little certainty of our eternal future together, only that we both deeply know that our lives are watched over and will be recompensed by a wise and loving Father.GeckoManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04846438788253129899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-79885137480727525922011-02-27T12:03:20.564-07:002011-02-27T12:03:20.564-07:00I've said it before and I'd say it again. ...I've said it before and I'd say it again. I'm not against MOM's as long as both parties have full disclosure of what they're getting into and at least when thing go sour there will not be the issue of "You took advantage of me and didn't tell me"--I can still hear my X saying those words.... Regular marriages are hard enough, the odds are highly stacked against it to make it even less complex. Having said that you and I know that there's still plenty of Moho's that have been where we have and will be where we are down the road and while in some tragic way is unfair, it seems to be the circle of life, Moho style.<br />Hugs,MiguelMiguelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04203771368783213108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1320046297313453232.post-78818868121188963022011-02-27T10:59:10.124-07:002011-02-27T10:59:10.124-07:00Well, a true rant, with all the exaggerations and ...Well, a true rant, with all the exaggerations and intolerance that characterize rants.<br /><br />But, alas, also full of truth and insight. I have been married 30-some years and hardly a day goes by when I don't feel some regret. There is love in my marriage, friendship, fun, and respect. And lots of history which is a powerful glue. But no passion. <br /><br />Knowing what I know now, if I had to do it all over again, knowing that I would probably not have my children, professional success, and social stability? I really don't know, but the fact that I think about it tells all.<br /><br />Mr. (Gay) Mormon Guy is headed for a fall. That's his choice; but what a shame if he brings others down with him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com